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This is a follow-up to my earlier post about IMAP clients. This is the last post I'll make on the subject for while; I promise.

Ultimately, KMail didn't work for me either. It has a number of extremely serious IMAP and DIMAP bugs which prevent it from being used in production. In an effort to confirm this, I did consult with folks at #kontact. It was hard to track anyone down over the course of two days but I finally did find someone who was able to tell me that KMail isn't being worked on - all the core developers are busy with their day jobs. Apparently, all of the bugs I experienced are regressions that have existed since the KDE 3.4 time frame (some six months ago).

During my discourse in #kontact, I also heard an rumor that I haven't been able to confirm. So take it with a grain of salt but, supposedly, Evolution is now only being maintained by Novell by a team in Bangladesh. And, most of their time is being sucked up implementing Groupwise support. Also, supposedly, the only people in Ximian whom are still working on Evolution are only doing so on a very limited basis. I don't know if its true or not but this would square with my experience with Evolution's bugzilla - triaging takes a very long time.

I did give Sylpheed Claws GTK2 a serious test run. It almost won me over but in the end it was just too slow. It can take up to 60 seconds to open a folder even though there is a good local disk cache.

So, I have now been using Thunderbird for five days. It hasn't crashed a single time and while it doesn't have the calendaring piece, as I said before, I can use a separate application for that. IMAP folders open immediately and Junk mail filtering is non-blocking. I don't really have any complaints about it, yet.


( 24 comments — Leave a comment )
Sep. 25th, 2006 09:38 pm (UTC)
Not quite there yet for some common office uses
That's bad news about Evolution. I hope it is a rumor. Unfortunately, these programs are not quite ready for many offices uses. There's no good, light-weight method to share calendars (with multiple writers per calendar) between Evolution and Korganizer: Evolution does CalDAV but not WebDAV---and the opposite with Korganizer.

None of them synch well with mobile phones or PDAs. For example, Evolution's MultiSync was last updated 2004. None of these programs do SyncML out of the box. Evolution has a third-party, console SyncML with a complex configuration system.

Sep. 26th, 2006 09:50 am (UTC)
Re: Not quite there yet for some common office uses
OpenSync is IMHO the future on Sync on Linux. Multisync is dead (same people)
Sep. 25th, 2006 09:42 pm (UTC)
move to webmail
I've been through your pain in one way or another the past few years. I finally bit the bullet and just moved to gmail.

Sep. 26th, 2006 09:48 am (UTC)
Re: move to webmail
I don't think this is either an acceptable solution or even possible for everybody. Remember that lot of people actually use email at work...
Sep. 25th, 2006 09:46 pm (UTC)
Thunderbird FTW
Thunderbird is a very nice mail application. Its filtering and vFolder ("saved searches") is very powerful (and FAST!) though still easy to use. Combined with Enigmail for its GPG support, it's quite a fantastic piece of work from the Mozilla hackers.

The only thing I miss about it that Evo had was the global addressbook and other things with the rest of the desktop (thanks to the evolution-data-server stuff). Perhaps someone will implement that as an extension or via LDAP somehow though. That would be very cool.
Sep. 25th, 2006 10:57 pm (UTC)
When did you try sylpheed-claws? I use it on a daily basis and since the later updates to the caching system, I have never experienced the slowness you mention. I have mailfolders with 15000+ mails both local and on Imap, and it takes only a few seconds to open the folders.
Just tested on a imap folder with 10.153 mails and even though it preprocesses the folder to remove messages older than XX days, it still only took 2.8sec.
Sep. 26th, 2006 06:02 am (UTC)
Re: sylpheed-claws
Hi there,

Jason, is your IMAP server Exchange?
Nov. 20th, 2006 12:39 pm (UTC)
Re: sylpheed-claws

Well, I have using Kmail with no problems but suddenly I got the mencioned slowness.
Now it takes near 1 minute not just to open a folder (with 30- mails) but to do anything else like delete a old mail (40 seconds) or mark one as spam.
I have not changed anything, unless the automatic update have done it.
Am using kUbuntu 6.06
Sep. 25th, 2006 11:31 pm (UTC)
Thunderbird calendering
Don't know if you're aware, but the Mozilla folks have been working on a calender app, both as standalone and as an extension for Thunderbird. I doubt it's ready for prime time, but you can find out more info here:

Sep. 26th, 2006 05:19 am (UTC)
Re: Thunderbird calendering
Yes, actually even Sun Microsystems has developers working on it, but it is not ready. Even version 0.3 alpha is not quite out yet. It supports iCal over WebDAV and over a "basic" implementation of CalDAV, but Mozilla does not really do SyncML. There is a stagnant-looking, alpha-quality SyncML for Mozilla, but it's only for an old version of Windows Sunbird (or something like that).

Also, Mark Shuttleworth's OSAF is building Chandler, but they don't even "dog food" all of their application yet.

So, basically, there's still no great open source / free software calendaring / PIM / e-mail application. There are some close calls, but nothing is quite there yet.

Sep. 27th, 2006 05:57 am (UTC)
Re: Thunderbird calendering
I don't think Mark Shuttleworth has anything to do with OSAF or Chandler.
Sep. 25th, 2006 11:48 pm (UTC)
Evolution not quite that bad
I don't think the rumour about Evolution is entirely true - yes, they're sometimes very slow responding to bugs logged, but there *is* still development work being done.

Although I don't think there's much that's actually visible to users at this point - there aren't any significant features missing that I can think of, just a lot of behind-the-scenes work to improve stability and performance, to work with different API changes, for example.
Sep. 26th, 2006 07:56 am (UTC)
Re: Evolution not quite that bad
Yes there is still development work being done but it always seems to be on the glamour side of things. Yes Cairo rendering is all well and good for the display of calendar items but is it really that important? I would much prefer them to spend some time refactoring the core to speed it up, migrate it to dbus, fix up some long outstanding bugs and generally clean up some of the outstanding issues. It would also nicely improve their 'Linux Groupwise Client' in the process.

On a side note. The Calendar and Contacts applications that are standalone but use e-d-s are quite good and a lot less of a memory pig.
Nov. 7th, 2006 06:56 pm (UTC)
Re: Evolution not quite that bad
There IS a dbus implementation and it's in active development. http://projects.o-hand.com/eds
Sep. 26th, 2006 09:47 am (UTC)
Re: Evolution not quite that bad
Speed? Performance?
Sep. 26th, 2006 07:12 am (UTC)
Ohh... There is always Mutt. I love it, you can too :)
Sep. 26th, 2006 09:11 am (UTC)
Bangalore, not Bangladesh
The Evolution maintainers are in Bangalore, India. (India's high-tech capital, more or less.) Not Bangladesh. I very much doubt supporting the GroupWise interface in Evolution takes that much of their time. (And if it does, that would then be because there are actual paying customers who use GroupWise servers and need support.) Or are you confusing people working on GroupWise itself with people working on Evolution? They are quite different teams.
Sep. 26th, 2006 09:46 am (UTC)
I have switched back to Thunderbird and I don't regret it.

As for KMail, there is new stuff being worked on for KDE4. I just hope that it works better.

And most KDE hackers use KMail so that is were all these issues surprise me.
Sep. 26th, 2006 02:31 pm (UTC)
You should probably re-check what version of KMail you tried, and how you set it up. The KMail from KDE 3.4 and 3.5 on Debian-based distros (debian and ubuntu) has served me well for a long time now as a client for courier-imap, with only one minor issue -- sometimes (around once a fortnight) it gets out of sync with its imap io subsystem, and can't refresh any lists/views. But quiting and restarting solves that. Otherwise, it's easily the best IMAP client I've used, out of kmail, evolution, opera, balsa, claws, thunderbird, and some others. Sadly, MS Outlook seemed to be better at actual IMAP, except for the horrible UI.
Sep. 26th, 2006 09:48 pm (UTC)
evo triaging
hi jason,
well... if kmail also provides a calendar, tasks and contacts management and supports as many different kind of accounts, then we can compare them. ;-)

with regard to the triaging, i can only say that the volunteers try hard to triage every bug that comes in - take a look at the weekly statistics at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/reports/weekly-bug-summary.cgi to get an imperssion of the huge amount of bugs that the triage team has to handle.
the situation has become much better within the last months and only very few bugs have not been triaged.
it's a pity that your bug report has been not triaged earlier (at least i was on an "offline" holiday when you filed your report). :-(

andre klapper (one of the evo bugtriagers)
Sep. 26th, 2006 10:02 pm (UTC)
Re: evo triaging

Kmail (Kontact) does. So they can be compared.

I appreciate your efforts WRT triaging.

Sep. 29th, 2006 10:22 am (UTC)
> Evolution is now only being maintained by Novell by a team in Bangladesh.

The team is in India (Bangalore) also & they do alot besides groupwise suppport. Also, Red Hat is working on evolution, specially i18n.
Dec. 24th, 2009 11:24 pm (UTC)
his is a very good article

msn nickleri msn nickleri korku korku Xx..
Mar. 23rd, 2010 06:26 pm (UTC)
no that wasnt a rumor, it was really so. I'm glad that thunderbird works for you !

facebook sohbet




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color, uphair, smile
Jason D. Clinton

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